Post by iCyBeEeZ on Oct 13, 2006 6:21:55 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Assasin : Hermit related questions[/glow]
1) Shadow Partner, how does it work? Will using this skill make me poor (ie: does it consume more stars)? Can hermits train without it? Is this skill useless before maxed? Does it work with other skills besides lucky 7's?
Shadow Partner is a summon that mimics all your actions, including all your thief skills such as lucky 7's, Drain, Avenger. The damage of the mimic'ed skill however will output only 50% (at maxed level) of the damage you would normally deal. When it mimics a normal attack, it will do 80% of your normal damage. It requires a summon stone each time you use it, and lasts for 180 seconds at maxed level.
This is the single most important skill for hermits. It makes a great deal of difference to your training and you will see the benefits immediately. The key here is the stability, you have to realize that most of your L7 damage is dependant to critical hits. SP (Shadow Partner) improves exactly that, giving you two more chances to get critical, but however damage is halved (so in effect it almost let you do about 50% more damage than what you are normally doing without Shadow Partner. Especially fighting monsters 1-2 hit KOable, shadow partner makes quite a very big difference in ensuring those skills under consistent number of hits.
You get stronger, more stable (although still the job that does the least stable damage in the game with SP), what's the cost of such a skill? Shadow Partner requires a summoning stone to cast. But you must remember that you will still be using a first job skill after becoming a hermit, Lucky 7's costs only 16 MP to cast. As long as you train without taking too many breaks, you should be spending equally as much funding as most other jobs would (for example strafe costs 32 MP each shot). It is not a big problem, but you ought to make sure you make use of those summoning stones' time.
Unfortunately SP doubles all your star costs, meaning each L7 would consume 2x2 = 4 stars while each Avenger would consume 3x2 = 6 stars. This is the major drawback of SP, meaning you would most likely want to double the current amount of stars you are using before a hermit in order to train under the same amount of time.
SP still helps at various levels, before maxing. It's just that you might be spending too much money here & there, using SP within its non maxed timer. At level 21 Shadow Partner has 180 seconds, the maximum timer for this skill. Naturally people would start using this skill at lv 21.
SP works with everything, including attacking with a non star weapon in addition to all hermit skills, such as avenger.
2) Flash Jump, what is so good about this skill? Under what conditions can you use this skill? Can you attack within a Flash Jump? Is this skill spmmable? Should hermits max this skill early?
If there is one skill that defines a hermit from other jobs, it would be none other than Flash Jump. Being the single most fastest moving/travelling skill in maple, there isn't anything that could even come close to compare with it. Unlike teleport, you cannot use FJ to cancel in/out of skills, unlike avenger you can use FJ whether there are enemies in sight or not, flash jump is unique itself & extremely useful in simply moving across an area (horizontally).
If you thought haste was anything fast for you, be ready to get hopped over your heads by hermits. Flash Jump isn't a skill that you could call bad at all. Everyone having to used a (maxed) FJ for a few minutes, would be in love. This is the skill you assasins have been waiting for, after all that work.
The only condition for executing flash jump is when your character is in the mid air. It acts like an extra jump (with high horizontal acceleration) but with the exceptions 1) you cannot use any other aerial skill within a FJ, 2) you cannot change the direction you are facing until the moment prior to landing. Like other skills that can be used in the air, flash jump can be used coming off a ladder (and jumping onto a new ladder also).
NOTE: The recent update changed the hermit in that you can no longer use lucky 7 or any other attack skill while within a flash jump (before they let you use L7 while jumping with timing, but it's considered useless anyways since you cannot change your flying direction, so most of the time you will most likely land on the monster). So no, you cannot attack inside it.
As for spamming FJ, the interesting thing here is, the game sets it so that you can't always use FJ whenever you are in the air. There's a slight moment of delay you must wait before pressing the FJ button, in the case that you press FJ too early or too slow, your character will not perform any FJ, in addition you cannot attack from the air afterwards. Timing is important for FJ, but it's not too difficult. With practice you should be able to spam this skill at least 2-3 times in a row. From experimenting, I found out that a good keyboard (with good responses) work best with it~ You cannot use any "turbo" or "rapid fire" function because you would be hitting FJ too soon before the game accepts it. You would need a good internet connection to even out with the game's lag too. It's not a big problem. I could do a maximum of 12 FJ continously with minor effort, after practicing for a while, while some and many of my friends could not make beyond 4 jumps in a row. It varies from person to person.
At lower levels, FJ simply costs too much MP. Besides that, the horizontal & vertical distance is quite small to make it nearly anything near to its maxed counterpart. Although it dosen't necesarily help you train much faster, however it is certainly better than other skills. In addition it is also simply fun to play with. It totally redefines the "fun factor" for being an assasin. Most experienced hermits would tell you to max FJ right after Shadow Partner.
3) Avenger, what is this skill about? Is this skill practical? How does it compare with using Lucky 7's?
Basically you consume 3 stars (6 stars with SP) to create one giant star and throw it in a line in front of you, hitting all enemies in a line up to a maximum of 6 targets. It acts like the crossbower's Iron Arrow skill.
Avenger is really a mixed bag of things.
It's good in the sense that it kinda kills faster than lucky 7's (with a large line of mobs). It only works when the mobs are in a line; meaning you can't hit mobs slightly above/below the line at which you throw your avenger. Take note that it has some lag when you use it & after using it, so it takes some timing to get used to. The lag also leaves you vulnerable, it is extremely noticable when compared with Lucky 7's.
As for damage, it sometimes could do more, sometimes less. Avenger totally sucks without SP, so don't even think about using it without SP. But that's also a flaw in Avenger; using SP with Avenger consumes 6 stars each time. Hermits already have a tough time carrying the limited supply of stars, and as they get higher level that difficulty increases. You generally don't want to use Avenger too freely, it simply costs too much of your 'ammo'. And you will be using SP with you, at all times once you have 21 levels of it. I am not recommending anything here, just stating the facts.
A property I should emphasize here is that Avenger only travels horizontally. This means that it dosen't auto target enemies if they can't be touched horizontally by avenger. Of course you can't really use this skill too high in the air since it would most likely fly over the monsters' heads (unless the monsters are quite tall). Do note that Lucky 7's & Drain bends diagonally when you hit targets from a different height, Avenger dosen't have this property. You will not like it.
Avenger's range is also quite short, the range only increases if you hit on one target & when there's more monsters after it (in a horizontal line).
Overall it's quite a disapointing mob skill. It takes some work to make it really practical.
4) Alchemist, & Meso Up, how do they work?
Alchemist is a passive skill that gives 150% effect on all the potions & time based status pots. It does not do anything with ETC items, such as summoning rocks.
Example: a pure water recovers 800 mana normally. With maxed alchemist, you would recover 800x1.5 = 1200 mana per pure water. In effect saving you much much pots, & unlike Meso Up alchemist lets you save money immediately as soon as you start putting SP into alchemist (Whereareas Meso Up only benefits when you actually pick up the drops from individual monsters, and the task of looting becomes quite time consuming at higher level places). Hermits generally spend a lot of funds, and the extra recovery will let you train carrying less pots & therefore more room for extra stars. You will need to carry more & more stars as you level higher, obviously; to compensate the extra time needed to stay at certain areas.
As for pots that have a timer, the +5 attack chocolates sold at ludibrium lasts 10 minutes long. With maxed alchemist that extends it to last 15 minutes (600 seconds -> 900 seconds).
The only potions not effected by alchemist are elixirs, which are % based.
Meso Up is a party skill, that gives 150% meso drop bonus, that lasts 120 seconds when maxed. This skill could get you richer, but it isn't as great as it stands. Yes you would benefit very much fighting at maps where it's relatively easy to loot (ie zombie maps, various maps in El Nath). But at higher level mob places, you generally won't be looting, and thus randering this skill less appealing. In JMS gunboss & all the high level places in ludibrium have either very bad meso drops or that they simply drop at places that are difficult (& time costly) to loot.
Also note carefully that it only lasts two minutes (120 seconds), and that means you would have to spam this skill quite a bit, it is usually discouraged to use Meso Up to go around maps ~~ a lot of time is wasted which you could get everyone much more EXP in a party.
It isn't as good as it sounds, but of course any extra money is a good thing. Most hermits prefer alchemist first, however.
With both alchemist & Meso Up, Hermits become instantly the richest job in Maple. People do take advantage of this fact, and with the general high population of hermits, they tend to sell stars, claws & claw scrolls at much higher prices compared with equipments for other classes.
5) Shadow Mesos, is this skill useful? Is it strong? Does it ignore enemy defenses?.
The quickest answer would be No, No, and No.
Shadow Mesos charges 300-800 each time you use it, and double that amount if used with shadow partner. Relatively speaking Shadow Mesos is very unstable compared with L7 + SP, simply because one is 4 hits while this is 2. It does OK damage, but it has a 10% chance to do 1.5x damage. Using this skill for a period you will be amazed at how much mesos you burned.
I don't know where the people got the idea that it ignores enemy defenses from, because it dosen't. Shadow Mesos DOES NOT ignore enemy defenses, period.
Since it is not very strong, and it dosen't ignore enemy defenses, this skill can be totally discarded. You can almost forget that it existed in the first place. The only reason why people choose this skill is because it maybe slightly better than Shadow Web, which is generally disliked by most hermits.
And the only reason why it does more damage than L7 (only a little more) on higher defense monsters is because it hits the enemy twice, and not four times (all with shadow partner).
Shadow Mesos does ignore guard up skills if the enemies could ever cast it. In a Jakum battle, the priest could dispel this status on the monsters, so could crusaders (with more range too).
6) Shadow Web, does it offer protection? Is this skill practical?
Shadow Web is used at melee range, to lockdown on monsters, with a moderate (non 100%) success rate. The lockdown is only 8 seconds at maxed level... while you have to cast it on the run in. In addition the web breaks as soon as you hit the enemy again. Although the range is quite small, you may use the web on a ladder/rope.
Yes it offers protection, but it is worst form of this kind of skill. Think of Ice Strike that dosen't work most of the time, that is slower, has shorter range, and does much less damage, and the freeze state breaks as soon as you hit the enemy. Really, really bad.
Shadow Web has one use however, it is to kill crimson balrog.
7) Since most of the hermit skills are quite irrelevant, or just really bad, will we lose the motivation to level up?
Hermits are among one of the most enjoyable classes in the stage where you maxed flash jump. After SP & FJ you are pretty much done, a lot of motivation would been lost. But the people play hermits for the fun, or just that it's quite a relatively easier job to play compared with others.
Provided you don't get bored of maple & don't wanna make anymore new characters, you would have a lot of fun in the mid 80s 90s. You might lose the motivation to level up but you would probably still play it for fun.
Look at this on the bright side though, most jobs need to put much more effort to maximize their needs. Hermits really need only two skills. Of course, since you will most likely keep playing, you will eventually max Avenger, Alchemist & Meso Up. They do help, in particular Alchemist & Meso Up will help you getting better equipments, therefore more motivation to level. Really, you shouldn't be bothered about throwing those lucky 7's all day, as you have been doing so in the past anyways (which honestly isn't a bad thing).
7) Since most of the hermit skills are quite irrelevant, or just really bad, will we lose the motivation to level up?
Hermits are among one of the most enjoyable classes in the stage where you maxed flash jump. After SP & FJ you are pretty much done, a lot of motivation would been lost. But the people play hermits for the fun, or just that it's quite a relatively easier job to play compared with others.
Provided you don't get bored of maple & don't wanna make anymore new characters, you would have a lot of fun in the mid 80s 90s. You might lose the motivation to level up but you would probably still play it for fun.
Look at this on the bright side though, most jobs need to put much more effort to maximize their needs. Hermits really need only two skills. Of course, since you will most likely keep playing, you will eventually max Avenger, Alchemist & Meso Up. They do help, in particular Alchemist & Meso Up will help you getting better equipments, therefore more motivation to level. Really, you shouldn't be bothered about throwing those lucky 7's all day, as you have been doing so in the past anyways (which honestly isn't a bad thing).
8) What is the general build order for hermits?
Max Shadow Partner
Max Flash Jump (unlock with lv 5 Avenger)
Max Avenger and Alchemist (in any order you like).
Max Meso Up
rest is up 2 you.
This path will make you level at the fastest pace, and you will probably have the most fun doing so too, especially when you max FJ. As said, Avenger is not a really good skill, so postpone it as far away as you can.
erm thats all
1) Shadow Partner, how does it work? Will using this skill make me poor (ie: does it consume more stars)? Can hermits train without it? Is this skill useless before maxed? Does it work with other skills besides lucky 7's?
Shadow Partner is a summon that mimics all your actions, including all your thief skills such as lucky 7's, Drain, Avenger. The damage of the mimic'ed skill however will output only 50% (at maxed level) of the damage you would normally deal. When it mimics a normal attack, it will do 80% of your normal damage. It requires a summon stone each time you use it, and lasts for 180 seconds at maxed level.
This is the single most important skill for hermits. It makes a great deal of difference to your training and you will see the benefits immediately. The key here is the stability, you have to realize that most of your L7 damage is dependant to critical hits. SP (Shadow Partner) improves exactly that, giving you two more chances to get critical, but however damage is halved (so in effect it almost let you do about 50% more damage than what you are normally doing without Shadow Partner. Especially fighting monsters 1-2 hit KOable, shadow partner makes quite a very big difference in ensuring those skills under consistent number of hits.
You get stronger, more stable (although still the job that does the least stable damage in the game with SP), what's the cost of such a skill? Shadow Partner requires a summoning stone to cast. But you must remember that you will still be using a first job skill after becoming a hermit, Lucky 7's costs only 16 MP to cast. As long as you train without taking too many breaks, you should be spending equally as much funding as most other jobs would (for example strafe costs 32 MP each shot). It is not a big problem, but you ought to make sure you make use of those summoning stones' time.
Unfortunately SP doubles all your star costs, meaning each L7 would consume 2x2 = 4 stars while each Avenger would consume 3x2 = 6 stars. This is the major drawback of SP, meaning you would most likely want to double the current amount of stars you are using before a hermit in order to train under the same amount of time.
SP still helps at various levels, before maxing. It's just that you might be spending too much money here & there, using SP within its non maxed timer. At level 21 Shadow Partner has 180 seconds, the maximum timer for this skill. Naturally people would start using this skill at lv 21.
SP works with everything, including attacking with a non star weapon in addition to all hermit skills, such as avenger.
2) Flash Jump, what is so good about this skill? Under what conditions can you use this skill? Can you attack within a Flash Jump? Is this skill spmmable? Should hermits max this skill early?
If there is one skill that defines a hermit from other jobs, it would be none other than Flash Jump. Being the single most fastest moving/travelling skill in maple, there isn't anything that could even come close to compare with it. Unlike teleport, you cannot use FJ to cancel in/out of skills, unlike avenger you can use FJ whether there are enemies in sight or not, flash jump is unique itself & extremely useful in simply moving across an area (horizontally).
If you thought haste was anything fast for you, be ready to get hopped over your heads by hermits. Flash Jump isn't a skill that you could call bad at all. Everyone having to used a (maxed) FJ for a few minutes, would be in love. This is the skill you assasins have been waiting for, after all that work.
The only condition for executing flash jump is when your character is in the mid air. It acts like an extra jump (with high horizontal acceleration) but with the exceptions 1) you cannot use any other aerial skill within a FJ, 2) you cannot change the direction you are facing until the moment prior to landing. Like other skills that can be used in the air, flash jump can be used coming off a ladder (and jumping onto a new ladder also).
NOTE: The recent update changed the hermit in that you can no longer use lucky 7 or any other attack skill while within a flash jump (before they let you use L7 while jumping with timing, but it's considered useless anyways since you cannot change your flying direction, so most of the time you will most likely land on the monster). So no, you cannot attack inside it.
As for spamming FJ, the interesting thing here is, the game sets it so that you can't always use FJ whenever you are in the air. There's a slight moment of delay you must wait before pressing the FJ button, in the case that you press FJ too early or too slow, your character will not perform any FJ, in addition you cannot attack from the air afterwards. Timing is important for FJ, but it's not too difficult. With practice you should be able to spam this skill at least 2-3 times in a row. From experimenting, I found out that a good keyboard (with good responses) work best with it~ You cannot use any "turbo" or "rapid fire" function because you would be hitting FJ too soon before the game accepts it. You would need a good internet connection to even out with the game's lag too. It's not a big problem. I could do a maximum of 12 FJ continously with minor effort, after practicing for a while, while some and many of my friends could not make beyond 4 jumps in a row. It varies from person to person.
At lower levels, FJ simply costs too much MP. Besides that, the horizontal & vertical distance is quite small to make it nearly anything near to its maxed counterpart. Although it dosen't necesarily help you train much faster, however it is certainly better than other skills. In addition it is also simply fun to play with. It totally redefines the "fun factor" for being an assasin. Most experienced hermits would tell you to max FJ right after Shadow Partner.
3) Avenger, what is this skill about? Is this skill practical? How does it compare with using Lucky 7's?
Basically you consume 3 stars (6 stars with SP) to create one giant star and throw it in a line in front of you, hitting all enemies in a line up to a maximum of 6 targets. It acts like the crossbower's Iron Arrow skill.
Avenger is really a mixed bag of things.
It's good in the sense that it kinda kills faster than lucky 7's (with a large line of mobs). It only works when the mobs are in a line; meaning you can't hit mobs slightly above/below the line at which you throw your avenger. Take note that it has some lag when you use it & after using it, so it takes some timing to get used to. The lag also leaves you vulnerable, it is extremely noticable when compared with Lucky 7's.
As for damage, it sometimes could do more, sometimes less. Avenger totally sucks without SP, so don't even think about using it without SP. But that's also a flaw in Avenger; using SP with Avenger consumes 6 stars each time. Hermits already have a tough time carrying the limited supply of stars, and as they get higher level that difficulty increases. You generally don't want to use Avenger too freely, it simply costs too much of your 'ammo'. And you will be using SP with you, at all times once you have 21 levels of it. I am not recommending anything here, just stating the facts.
A property I should emphasize here is that Avenger only travels horizontally. This means that it dosen't auto target enemies if they can't be touched horizontally by avenger. Of course you can't really use this skill too high in the air since it would most likely fly over the monsters' heads (unless the monsters are quite tall). Do note that Lucky 7's & Drain bends diagonally when you hit targets from a different height, Avenger dosen't have this property. You will not like it.
Avenger's range is also quite short, the range only increases if you hit on one target & when there's more monsters after it (in a horizontal line).
Overall it's quite a disapointing mob skill. It takes some work to make it really practical.
4) Alchemist, & Meso Up, how do they work?
Alchemist is a passive skill that gives 150% effect on all the potions & time based status pots. It does not do anything with ETC items, such as summoning rocks.
Example: a pure water recovers 800 mana normally. With maxed alchemist, you would recover 800x1.5 = 1200 mana per pure water. In effect saving you much much pots, & unlike Meso Up alchemist lets you save money immediately as soon as you start putting SP into alchemist (Whereareas Meso Up only benefits when you actually pick up the drops from individual monsters, and the task of looting becomes quite time consuming at higher level places). Hermits generally spend a lot of funds, and the extra recovery will let you train carrying less pots & therefore more room for extra stars. You will need to carry more & more stars as you level higher, obviously; to compensate the extra time needed to stay at certain areas.
As for pots that have a timer, the +5 attack chocolates sold at ludibrium lasts 10 minutes long. With maxed alchemist that extends it to last 15 minutes (600 seconds -> 900 seconds).
The only potions not effected by alchemist are elixirs, which are % based.
Meso Up is a party skill, that gives 150% meso drop bonus, that lasts 120 seconds when maxed. This skill could get you richer, but it isn't as great as it stands. Yes you would benefit very much fighting at maps where it's relatively easy to loot (ie zombie maps, various maps in El Nath). But at higher level mob places, you generally won't be looting, and thus randering this skill less appealing. In JMS gunboss & all the high level places in ludibrium have either very bad meso drops or that they simply drop at places that are difficult (& time costly) to loot.
Also note carefully that it only lasts two minutes (120 seconds), and that means you would have to spam this skill quite a bit, it is usually discouraged to use Meso Up to go around maps ~~ a lot of time is wasted which you could get everyone much more EXP in a party.
It isn't as good as it sounds, but of course any extra money is a good thing. Most hermits prefer alchemist first, however.
With both alchemist & Meso Up, Hermits become instantly the richest job in Maple. People do take advantage of this fact, and with the general high population of hermits, they tend to sell stars, claws & claw scrolls at much higher prices compared with equipments for other classes.
5) Shadow Mesos, is this skill useful? Is it strong? Does it ignore enemy defenses?.
The quickest answer would be No, No, and No.
Shadow Mesos charges 300-800 each time you use it, and double that amount if used with shadow partner. Relatively speaking Shadow Mesos is very unstable compared with L7 + SP, simply because one is 4 hits while this is 2. It does OK damage, but it has a 10% chance to do 1.5x damage. Using this skill for a period you will be amazed at how much mesos you burned.
I don't know where the people got the idea that it ignores enemy defenses from, because it dosen't. Shadow Mesos DOES NOT ignore enemy defenses, period.
Since it is not very strong, and it dosen't ignore enemy defenses, this skill can be totally discarded. You can almost forget that it existed in the first place. The only reason why people choose this skill is because it maybe slightly better than Shadow Web, which is generally disliked by most hermits.
And the only reason why it does more damage than L7 (only a little more) on higher defense monsters is because it hits the enemy twice, and not four times (all with shadow partner).
Shadow Mesos does ignore guard up skills if the enemies could ever cast it. In a Jakum battle, the priest could dispel this status on the monsters, so could crusaders (with more range too).
6) Shadow Web, does it offer protection? Is this skill practical?
Shadow Web is used at melee range, to lockdown on monsters, with a moderate (non 100%) success rate. The lockdown is only 8 seconds at maxed level... while you have to cast it on the run in. In addition the web breaks as soon as you hit the enemy again. Although the range is quite small, you may use the web on a ladder/rope.
Yes it offers protection, but it is worst form of this kind of skill. Think of Ice Strike that dosen't work most of the time, that is slower, has shorter range, and does much less damage, and the freeze state breaks as soon as you hit the enemy. Really, really bad.
Shadow Web has one use however, it is to kill crimson balrog.
7) Since most of the hermit skills are quite irrelevant, or just really bad, will we lose the motivation to level up?
Hermits are among one of the most enjoyable classes in the stage where you maxed flash jump. After SP & FJ you are pretty much done, a lot of motivation would been lost. But the people play hermits for the fun, or just that it's quite a relatively easier job to play compared with others.
Provided you don't get bored of maple & don't wanna make anymore new characters, you would have a lot of fun in the mid 80s 90s. You might lose the motivation to level up but you would probably still play it for fun.
Look at this on the bright side though, most jobs need to put much more effort to maximize their needs. Hermits really need only two skills. Of course, since you will most likely keep playing, you will eventually max Avenger, Alchemist & Meso Up. They do help, in particular Alchemist & Meso Up will help you getting better equipments, therefore more motivation to level. Really, you shouldn't be bothered about throwing those lucky 7's all day, as you have been doing so in the past anyways (which honestly isn't a bad thing).
7) Since most of the hermit skills are quite irrelevant, or just really bad, will we lose the motivation to level up?
Hermits are among one of the most enjoyable classes in the stage where you maxed flash jump. After SP & FJ you are pretty much done, a lot of motivation would been lost. But the people play hermits for the fun, or just that it's quite a relatively easier job to play compared with others.
Provided you don't get bored of maple & don't wanna make anymore new characters, you would have a lot of fun in the mid 80s 90s. You might lose the motivation to level up but you would probably still play it for fun.
Look at this on the bright side though, most jobs need to put much more effort to maximize their needs. Hermits really need only two skills. Of course, since you will most likely keep playing, you will eventually max Avenger, Alchemist & Meso Up. They do help, in particular Alchemist & Meso Up will help you getting better equipments, therefore more motivation to level. Really, you shouldn't be bothered about throwing those lucky 7's all day, as you have been doing so in the past anyways (which honestly isn't a bad thing).
8) What is the general build order for hermits?
Max Shadow Partner
Max Flash Jump (unlock with lv 5 Avenger)
Max Avenger and Alchemist (in any order you like).
Max Meso Up
rest is up 2 you.
This path will make you level at the fastest pace, and you will probably have the most fun doing so too, especially when you max FJ. As said, Avenger is not a really good skill, so postpone it as far away as you can.
erm thats all
